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04 July 2007 @ 03:45 pm
How to Deal with People who have OCPD  
For those who don't already know, OCPD stands for "Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder" (not to be confused with obsessive compulsive disorder, which is entirely something else), and is a serious problem for individuals who have it. The most pronounced symptoms of people who have OCPD include, but are not limited to:

-The refusal to admit being wrong. This is tied in with perfection.
-Must stubbornly and rigidly have his way with things. Will do anything to get it.
-Belief in absolute morality; that one is a moral center knowing right from wrong. Believes/expects the same of others.
-Believes everyone else has to do things his way.
-Has a terribly black and white view of the world.
-Nothing is considered "trivial".
-Does not willingly acknowledge that he has OCPD. (usually)

I have observed these things in a particular individual that used to be close to a few of my friends. I once considered him a friend before as well. Being with people who have OCPD has caused lots of trouble and discomfort for my friends that once considered being friends with him, and while it has affected them quite significantly, I'm not quite bothered by him. The things he has done to my friends is disgusting and unacceptable; and I concede to that. I don't doubt he could have done the same to me, yet it has never happened for the mere and simple reason that I'm a "robot".

It's probably no longer necessary to keep the identity of the one who has OCPD that lead me to these experiences hidden, as it should already be painstakingly obvious. But I'll give you a hint: Among all the Final Fantasy forums and communities, especially Advent Children.net, FFOmega, FFSpirit, and FFExtreme, he is one of the most hated members of all. To an even greater effect, he is also being voted consistently for the ACF awards for positions like "most underhanded" and "worst comeback". The one whom most members hate most of all on almost any Final Fantasy forum is none other than Words of Ivory.

But how have I been able to avoid being pestered by him? I do not fit within the equation of Words' plans, nor has he really been able to manipulate me. Let's take a closer look at how he failed.

"The refusal to admit being wrong. This is tied in with perfection."

I'm not particularly bothered by people who refuse to admit being wrong. It does not hurt me to see people ignore things they don't consider wrong and would miss out on learning something if they could concede to their mistake. If anything, they'd only be damaging themselves, something for which they do not realize is happening to them. What this does tell me though is that anything I tell Words falls on deaf ears, thus when I tell him something, I either do not expect him to believe me, nor do I expect anything I say to change what he thinks. If it bothers him that I'm not a perfectionist, striving to be more perfect with the things I do, I am not bothered if he thinks he can pester me about it. He will have achieved nothing by doing so because I feel nothing towards someone who spends all his time trying to make someone else do something exactly the way he wants it to. Don't give him the satisfaction of knowing that you're bothered. This only encourages him to continue bothering him. If you can make him believe that you're not bothered at the least bit, then he may leave you alone. Although I highly doubt that was the only reason he stopped bugging me.

"-Must stubbornly and rigidly have his way with things. Will do anything to get it."

And this is probably one of the biggest reasons why Words is winning the award for most underhanded. It would be nice to have goals and such achieved, but to achieve them by doing things that adversely affect others is disrespectful and largely unappreciated. He will do anything at all to get what he wants. Lie, cheat or stalk. This could only occur if you do not care what others think. The most common way in which Words achieves this is by playing off of other people's emotions, and by threatening people to do certain things in order to take advantage of their emotions. It is for this reason that I'm entirely immune to most of Words' threats and attacks. There are not many emotions I have for him to play with. I simply do not give him that satisfaction because all he could find was logic and math. Unfortunately for him, logic is as stubborn as he is, if not worse because he can't make 1+1 be anything else but 2, and this was another large reason why he stopped bothering me. I do not know how other people might be able to deal with this because we all have emotions, one way or another. However, the less he knows about your emotions, the harder it is for him to use them. This is probably also why he consistently asks his "friends" personal information about themselves, so that he might have information to use against you if you don't do something he likes. The less he knows about you, the harder it will be for him to use information against you.

"-Belief in absolute morality; that one is a moral center knowing right from wrong. Believes/expects the same of others."

I used to think that the only people who had this problem would be religious biggots. Apparently, that wasn't entirely correct. People with OCPD have that problem too. I'm well aware that Words disagrees with me on certain things, but being that I'm a debater, I can hold off my end fairly well. Since I prefer to use logic in my arguments, he probably doesn't find it enjoyable or worthwhile to make me believe otherwise. He consistently has problems with believing others when they say things, and assumes to know whether or not you're lying or telling the truth, even if you try to explain it to him. The only thing I have to say to that is, "If you already knew what I intended to say or do, then there was no need to talk to me about it. Since you already know the 'truth', you may as well talk to a wall." If he isn't believing what you're saying, don't be bothered by it. There's not really much of a point in trying to convince him otherwise, and you won't have much to gain from it. If it's about an account on his forums, it's probably not worth it, seeing that his forums has turned into a "Corrine loves Words of Ivory" forum.

"-Believes everyone else has to do things his way."

This is a consistent problem with my friends who have had the misfortune of working with him. If he doesn't get what he wants, he'll use the tactics described above, until you give in because you want him to shut up, or he eventually gives up once he realizes he's talking to a robot. Your best bet would simply be not to work with him at all and give him the satisfaction of boosting his ego. If he doesn't stop bothering you about such things, I only have to conclude that he is infringing on the rights to people's choice of freedom. But what can he do? Make you sit at the keyboard and type?

Friendships and People
Words treats people as if they were objects. He treats them like pawns in a game to use to his own advantage. In the end, people do not mean anything to him. They have no value to him except what they do for him. He does not, in return, care to do anything for them. He only does things once or twice to convince them of being friends with him, and once they believe they are "friends" with him, he will start to mistreat them. Because of this concept, Words, in actuality, has no concept of friendship, and as a result, he has no friends. He may make claims about people being his friends, but once they have stopped being useful to him, he discards them and will not concede to the fact that they were once friends before. This also conveniently suits his purposes, if he thinks he needs to get out of a binge. As such, he has treated more intimate relationships in much the same way; discarding girlfriends as if they were never "girlfriends" and felt nothing towards it. Thus he was never in love.

I don't particularly bear any hatred towards Words because of what he has done to me. I am inclined to dislike him only because of the way he treats my friends. Some of my friends feel sorry for him because of the pathetic state he is in, and others simply hate him and wish he would leave them alone. I myself find him amusing because of his reasoning (or lack thereof). To me, it is like watching a dog chase its tail; I don't have to tie his tail around his leg to make it harder because it's already amusing enough.

So in general? The only antidote to dealing with people with OCPD is a full dose of logic. Use it over and over again for a multiplied effect until he gets the point or gives up.

NB: I have realized that Words should have been added to my list of "kids" who think they're god in my journal entry below. He fits in quite well with the rest of them.

EDIT (Mostly directed at you know who): Post any lewd pics, and I'll delete them all and harass you on Gmail or something.
Stimulus: exhaustedexhausted
tetharatrum on July 4th, 2007 09:56 pm (UTC)
You are beautiful Angelus in so many ways.

At first I though you were referring to DB however I am most pleased to see you are doing your part to inform the people of the truth about Words.

I wish I could help but I have had very little to do with him at all he blocked me on MSN months ago, no idea why. Also my time on VGC was little indeed all that ever really happened was an argument on FFF's shout box. Do you remember what it was about because I honestly do not.

A pleasure reading your advice on how to deal with OCPD, I shall keep it in mind and practice my logical debating skills.
(Anonymous) on July 5th, 2007 06:06 pm (UTC)
He went there and then started taking a piss simply because aerosol said "hi" on the shoutbox. He didn't do anything wrong; he simply showed up, and Words started causing drama.
daryl_falchiondaryl_falchion on July 7th, 2007 06:48 am (UTC)
That fucking rawked. I'm serious. I've not read such an accurate and well-written assesement of anyone's mentality in...ever. Awsum.
(Anonymous) on October 8th, 2007 12:16 pm (UTC)
Thats delightful, Purely delightful.
Though surely, if you ARE going to rant at someone, or about someone, you should really, inform them about it.
Otherwise, it's worse than talking behind their back. And thats just not right.

If you don't bear any hatred, or you "dont care" why on earth have you sat for however long it was, and typed this entire thing up? Obviously because you care.

And one last pretty thing, I've been Word's friend for almost 3 years now, and we've had arguments, and dissagreements, but all in all, he's still one of the BEST friends I've had. You're obviously too stupid to realise when you have a good friend, because you are over analysing them.

Persocom Kisses.
(Anonymous) on October 8th, 2007 09:55 pm (UTC)
Wow. How long did you spend on the john churning all that out?
(Anonymous) on October 9th, 2007 02:32 am (UTC)
How pathetic is it that you're all bitching about this months later? What are you, Darkblade? lol
(Anonymous) on October 12th, 2007 02:57 pm (UTC)
I'd agree with you about the communities part, but FFS never had a community to speak up, and FFO isn't even a legimate site and just a collection of ACFers (or rather, was, seeing as nobody actually posts there aynmore) defeating the point of mentioning it alongside ACF. Another great irony is that I'm currently managing the frontend of a site by the very people who used to own and run FFE.

Which only leaves ACF. And look where that place got you. *laughs*

You also failed to mention EoFF, FFI, FFP, and UFF. Not to mention XBF, PSB, GTM, and NWF. That would probably be because you needed to ignore any point that proves you wrong in order to convince yourself that you actually had a point in the first place.

How ironic. <3

Mind you, that's not even the most ridiculous point you made.

"As such, he has treated more intimate relationships in much the same way; discarding girlfriends as if they were never "girlfriends" and felt nothing towards it. Thus he was never in love."

This is backed up by... what, exactly? I have been with two people in the last four years; Corrine and Jennifer. Jennifer I was with for two and a half years, and the breakup is one she takes full responsible. The second person is the only other poster on http://www.corrineloveswordsofivory.com

To think, I actually gave you a ounce of credibility.

- Words <3
(Anonymous) on October 12th, 2007 03:01 pm (UTC)

I actually went to a psychologist to be tested for OCPD a couple of months back. I got a clean bill of metal health. <3

Don't attack other people's indentity just to try and justify your own. It's not our issue that you are an ignorant, soulless, loveless woman.

*sighs out of pity for you*
his_sanctuary on October 13th, 2007 12:16 am (UTC)
You aren't bothered by him, yet you spent quite a bit of thought on this, right? Oh, yes, I forgot, there's a difference between logically analysing something and being emotionally disturbed by it: and you are incapable of any form of the latter. As someone who has a limited capacity for feeling the spectrum of emotion, if I were you I would refrain from trying to catagorise it in another. If you cannot relate to something you are trying to understand, you cannot logically understand it.

Human beings are not an algebra problem. The ones who can feel emotion have too much depth to analyse based on a few observations. You would not solely judge the results of an experiment based on the words of another, would you?

I am saying that your results are based on seeing Michael from Dawn and from people like her and this is a very flawed basis of research. Especially since you probably know your own friend is incapable of using any forms of logic to back up her emotional rantings. It seems you two represent two sides of a human being: One without emotional depth and one without logical influence.

You fail to mention the many relationships Michael has had with people for years, that have not ended up like the one with Dawn. Not including the people he loves that are in his family, there's Laura, Allyson, me, and others who I don't keep track of. No, I do not keep a ready resume of successful interpersonal relationships of Michael in my head.

You also fail to mention your friend's emotional turmoil all on her lonesome without Michael's prodding. Which I am sure you are quite well aware of.

Get over yourself, Angelus.
angelustenebrae: pic#71632723angelustenebrae on February 17th, 2008 08:11 pm (UTC)
Well, it is quite obvious that I missed all these messages, otherwise I might have deleted them or responded to them sooner, not that it matters anymore. Unfortunately, I cannot remember exactly under which circumstances I was bent on writing this piece; it was most likely in defense of my friends or the disgust at which I express for particular people with emotions, because emotions are irrational.

To begin with, I am not entirely sure where I said I didn't care about this, only that I don't hate Words, as I do not hate too many people. However, I do care about my friends, and if I feel they are being offended unjustly, I would defend them, even if it means writing this as a rant. Now that's not to say that I'm back stabbing by hiding my messages or talking behind people's backs and not showing them to other people, because if I did, I would have made this entry private, but I did not. In fact, I rarely, if ever, make any of my entries private. Since I know that Words frequents LJ, it would only be a matter of time since he would see this entry. If he had anything to say, and I finally see that he did, I know full well what to expect.

And to the anonymous poster, posting in defense of Words, it's great that you see him as a friend, and I would not try to change what you see in him, but the fact is, not everyone makes friends with other people. Just because you see him as a great friend doesn't mean everyone else sees the same thing. But at the end of the day, when I ask myself what has Words done for me, when I might have done something for him, like staffing his forums or helping him get unbanned from ACF, I see that I have very little to benefit from this kind of a friendship, if I were to treat it as such. For trying to get him unbanned from ACF, I am either continually pestered to keep doing it, even though I have done all that I can, and nothing more from my end can be done for him, or I am given no thanks for the work I have done. This is not what I would consider to be a good quality of a friend. when I staffed his forum, I do admit that my enthusiasm for it dropped, but if he felt I wasn't doing my job, he could have simply told me directly that he would destaff me and gone and done it. But in fact, he destaffs me without letting me know. And once again, I get no thanks for what I do. Of course, that's not the only thing Words has done to me. He has pissed off my friends, lied to them on several occasions, manipulated them, and in the end, believe this is all justified. He has also threatened one of my friends that he would pester me and her other friends if she did not comply with what he wanted. Does this sound like someone I want to be friends with? If you know me, I would not desire it. If you still believe he has some qualities that are worth sacrificing these things and other friends for, that's a choice you may choose to make, but it's one I'd rather not make.
angelustenebrae: pic#71632723angelustenebrae on February 17th, 2008 08:12 pm (UTC)
And Words, look at you now. You say that these forums all contain the same few people in it that hate you, yet I do not doubt that if you were to use the same behavior at other forums that might not contain the same few members in them, a similar result would occur. Don't forget that I'm well aware that you were banned from a forum in which you begged with them for four years just to get unbanned. One can only wonder how or why it was you were banned from that forum. You've also been taken off of FFE, so I've heard, and the only forum you're really working on is VGC.

You also boast about your prestige about being on FFE, and probably a few other forums, but why waste your effort boasting about staff positions on the Internet for which I don't care too much about, particularly because such positions give you the illusion of having power, and thereby, stroking one's ego?

As for the concept of love, it's quite simple for you to place the blame on the girlfriends who apparently "dump" you, so that your integrity might not be at question. But clearly, it is, from what I have seen of your character. I also have a perspective of the kinds of people that continue to be friends with you, but out of decency, and not for the sake of ridiculing you any longer because most of my friends have gotten over you, I will not mention it here.

Once again, I am not writing this to make myself look better; I wrote this then out of the defense of one of my friends, who was ever more of a friend to me than you ever were. I don't care what you or your girlfriend think of her, but I can judge for myself what I see in my friends. I also have no idea where you get the notion that I might have ever had OCPD--I display none of these symptoms as terribly as I believe that you do--those that know me well will know that I have none of these perfectionist, authoritarian or stubborn qualities. I doubt very much that you understand the kind of person that I am, and that you are only seeking to shift the blame on me to make your character less suspect. I also do not know if you are lying about your psychological test, but because your psychological disorders are not of my concern, it does not bother me what the doctors actually say about your condition. I only know from what I have seen of you that you have some of these characteristics; and these characteristics are things that anyone can observe for themselves--the ultimate diagnostic is only to make it official.
angelustenebrae: pic#71632723angelustenebrae on February 17th, 2008 08:12 pm (UTC)
Well, his_sanctuary, it's you, isn't it--Corrine? It must be, because no one else would defend Words to this extent--unless she was his girlfriend, am I right? Well, it's not so much you're defending him than parroting him. And don't say I knew that from Dawn; I was in the shoutbox on VGC enough times to see it myself when I was able to see it. I also hope you realize that I'm logical enough to know that parroting of statements does not make it any stronger than it actually is.

Once again, as to the anonymous friend of Words of Ivory, I posted this in defense of my friends. I care about my friends, but I don't care about how you feel about Words, whether or not Words knows of this, or what Words chooses to do about this or anything else. If you think your relationship with Words is the most important thing to you in the entire world, then good for you; just don't expect any of us to care that you're in love with him. I'm also not bothered if Words chooses to pester me with PMs, IMs, or other repetitive messages about doing stuff for him--in fact, I believe he's chickened out from talking to me completely.

I admit that there isn't much that I feel. But that doesn't mean that I don't know that other people are feeling things, or what they are feeling. I know this from observation. Perhaps I might not understand why Words acts the way he does, but one need not feel emotions to see what it is that he does. I "categorize" Words from what I see in him, regardless of why he is the way he is--perhaps you see something in him that I don't, and maybe that explains why you're still friends with him. The fact is, however, that most people who meet other people don't judge other people by what they feel or why they feel the things they do--people judge them for what they see and observe in them. If Words wants to explain to me why he does all these things as I have observed, he is free to do that himself, but perhaps you're just bothered by the fact that I'm observing this and not seeing the same thing you're seeing--that and your obvious devotion to Words clearly explains why you feel you need to attack me for a mere observation. Don't expect that we all view the world through the same lens, Corrine. I have no interest in seeing why you love Words so much, and I have no intention of doing so either now or in the future. Don't expect the same of others either. We see what we see, and nothing changes that.

Once again, I repeat that I have observed Words on my own enough to know for myself what I have concluded about him. This does not come solely as a result from friends or other people as well--the fact that what they are telling me is consistent with what I know of Words is not in itself a contradiction. I am logical enough to know when someone might be lying or not. I am rather experienced at that. Ironically enough, this works very much like an algebra problem. If you have a problem with that because I can't see emotional people in a way that isn't rational or unreasonable, then tough luck. That's not going to change my view just because I can't see his emotions or understand them.

Now I could say that you are in no position to judge my friends for what they are, but then I'd be committing the same fallacy as you--forcing other people to see things in other people that aren't there. So I'll let you believe that Dawn isn't logical, if that's what makes you happy. However, I will let you know that I know Dawn more than you know her, in the sense that I have observed her character longer than you have, and from what I have seen, I do not think she is being unreasonable. I'm not saying this as her friend only; if she were illogical to begin with, I might never have continued being her friend at all. You only try to make people think their views of Words is "flawed" because they don't think he's great; it's as if the only way to see Words is that he is great. Once again, if you believe he's great, then good for you; we don't care if you think of him that way. However, if we don't see the same things in him from our own observations, it might be wise for you to back off about the experiences we have had with him that you might not have been able to see.
angelustenebrae: pic#71632723angelustenebrae on February 17th, 2008 08:12 pm (UTC)
I am well aware that Words is capable of making relationships, but from what I can tell, none of them last very long. Whether it's with other friends or girlfriends, he never keeps them long. One can only wonder how it is that particular members from ACF bear such a strong grudge towards them--and it might just be because they were friends with him and were able to know him long enough to know what he was like, and when he did what he did, they could not accept it and stopped being friends with him. Of course, this could have all ended nicely, and the entire thing could have simply been dropped, but I find it difficult to believe that so many people (particularly if you suggested he made lots of friends) would bear a grudge against him after being friends with him--if it was a problem with them themselves, then perhaps one or two people might bear a grudge against Words. But the fact is, many of these people do.

The only "emotional turmoil" I was aware of in my friend is of the things that happen to her in real life, and the other things she's involved with on the Internet--it has nothing to do with her being emo, and if anything, it would be the complete opposite. The only times where I did notice she was having an emotional turmoil would often be when Words was involved. In fact, those were the worse. Which says something in terms of the evidence. I once again repeat; do not pretend to know things about my friends that you do not know; you may judge them and think certain things of them, but do not lie about them. Pretending you think you know how my friends feel in order to convince me this must be true is both dishonest and disgusting. I am not easily fooled by such fallacies, and it would be prudent that you cease with these ridiculous attacks.

Now, why don't you get over yourself, Corrine, mind your own business, and go back to the loving arms of your Words of Ivory, when you could be spending more time with him rather than wasting it on me?
angelustenebrae: pic#71632723angelustenebrae on February 17th, 2008 08:37 pm (UTC)
And yes, Words. I may be soulless and loveless, maybe even ignorant of emotions. But I am not ignorant of what you are, according to what I have observed, and if you claim to be something that you don't seem to be, then by all means, make that clear. However, the fact that I am soulless and loveless is not a reason to excuse who you are, and ultimately, not the reason I wrote this. Do not pretend to know other people's intentions. You most certainly are not god.

To everyone else, it is therefore clear that because I admit to being soulless and loveless and therefore, have no reason to shift the blame of my character that I admit to someone else's that Words' presumptuous reasons for why I wrote what I wrote are a fallacy.
daryl_falchiondaryl_falchion on February 24th, 2008 08:23 am (UTC)
Everything ends and in that ending there's always that last look at it to evaluate it and see how things went and see how that affects the future. Growth is an important thing to me; without it I'd stagnate as a person and would become entirely lost to the most important of human traits--change.

Despite what I am gonna say next and what's occured between Words and myself I actually do not bear him hatred. A wee bit of annoyance, a bit of amusement certainly, but mostly just a shrug of something that went terribly wrong. In fact I actually wish him well, I hope he learns some of things I tried to tell him and he becomes a better person as a result, though I know this possiblity to be unlikely indeed.

It would be incredibly easy for me to do as Words has done here and throw the blame on someone else--as he has done to myself and others. But I don't work that way. I know I have flaws and I work every day to overcome them and become a better person. And I know I've had my own mess-ups in this "friendship" but the very fact that he has chosen to blame everyone else entirely and take none of the blame himself--despite "apologizing" once or twice then taking it back a day later--shows that he lacks an important quality I have--humility. It is never enjoyable to acknowledge when one has messed up but it's also the only way to ever improve. Yet this is something Words does not think he himself needs. Everything that I have seen and everything that he has said shows he does not believe he needs to grow as a person.

Another big flaw of Words aside from a lack of desire or even acknowledge of the need to change is his hyprocrisy. "Do as I say and not as I do". Despite saying that others shouldn't threaten, harrass or committ violence on another person he himself excuses it so long as it serves his purpose. I know I've been illogical on occasion myself, but Words does not admit any possiblity of him ever being wrong or that he shouldn't do harmful things. How can there be any growth of enlightment in such a person? The moment you've decided you're always right you destory any possiblity of such.

One thing I know that Words was indeed right in (Look? You see, I can acknowledge such...) was my paranoia. Indeed, I thought some of the craziest things, misjudged things, jumped to conclusions on things. I know that this was happening, but funny thing was I warned Words this would happen. He could either try to coax me into trust or give up on me; either option and I'd have respected him. But instead Words, in this infinite "wisdom", sought to break down walls that weren't ready to be down, tried to force me into a connection I wasn't ready for nor wanted and in the end, did the exact opposite of what he claimed he wanted--to make me trust again. Instead, because of people like him, I find myself having an even harder time learning to believe in people.

You cannot put a gun to someone's head and tell them to be your friend. It dosen't work that way.

I think Corrine, his girlfriend, had an inkling into the dynamic when last we spoke. She mentioned "now you see what we tried to tell you, only maybe a bit harshly" or something to that effect. Yes, forcing your ideals down my throat (or Words ideals anyways) was a mistake. You cannot force someone to do something; all the things that Words tried to force upon me was given freely to others because I knew I was given the choice to live my life. Sadly I'd have given Words pretty much everything he wanted if only he'd have just stepped back and moment and asked--not demanded with a threat and torment.

I wished things had worked out differently between Words and I. I honestly, truly do. I took no enjoyment from the torment that was our "friendship" and many times I sought to end it peacefully. Sadly Words knows no way to let things go peacefully. I have peace, ever shall Words be at war with anyone who just slightly disagrees with him. How he lives such a life I cannot fathom--my life is just too full to spend it in wasteful pursuits. But then, that's his choice. Whatever the case is I wish him well. If Words wishes to bear a burden of anger, whatever, that's his choice.

As for me, I let go.
(Anonymous) on February 4th, 2010 06:44 pm (UTC)

- Your friend